Mr. KLEIN: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: Do you think the president and his people still want to try to avoid a war, or are they using this weapons inspection program as a pretext to go in there?
Mr. KLEIN: I--I think--I--in all likelihood we're going to go to war with Iraq, but I think we're already...
MATTHEWS: No matter what Iraq does?
Mr. KLEIN: Well--but--but we're in--but we're in a war. And--and this has to be seen in the context of the larger conflict with--with radical Islam. I mean, we're at the beginning, I fear, of a very long religious war.
Ms. VANDEN HEUVEL: But--but a war with Iraq is a distraction from the fight against terrorism. The consequences of destabilization in the region undermining the real fight. The anti-Americanism it's going to breed
Mr. KLEIN: Not if it's going to be right.
Mr. CARLSON: Well...
Ms. VANDEN HEUVEL: What is it doing right...
Mr. KLEIN: Not--not if it's done right.
Ms. VANDEN HEUVEL: Re--regime--but the--the whole preemptive--but...
Mr. KLEIN: This guy has some really terrible stuff and you've got to get rid of it.
...
Ms. VANDEN HEUVEL: I think that there is a--this is the most imperial presidency. I really believe that there is an accretion of power in the Executive Branch.
MATTHEWS: You think that president is
Mr. KLEIN: We're at war here...
MATTHEWS: You think the president is just a repressive dictator? The president?
Mr. KLEIN: We're...
Ms. VANDEN HEUVEL: I--no, no. But there' a difference between a dictator and imperial presidency. And the collateral damage, the weakening of our democracy is one I think we need to take seriously.
Mr. KLEIN: We're at war with people who have absolutely no scruple. When you're at war--when you're at war, the notion of civil liberties changes a little bit as Richard Posner has said.
Ms. VANDEN HEUVEL: Yeah, balance.
Mr. KLEIN: But, I mean, the bottom line is that this is the wildest, freest, most spontaneous country in the world. And I don't care what kind of 1984-like title they put on an--on--on their--their agency, and what kind of former Reagan person they put in charge there, this is going to remain the wildest, freest, most spontaneous country in the world.
More as I find it...